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Drawing Forum and Art Community • View topic - Not so Sad
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Not so Sad

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Brendan

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Post Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:31 am

Not so Sad

Oh .. how I miss the Auroch ..
Shunned, and driven,
down to the dock.
Then out to sea (where he'll not be back)
on a ship captained by our friend Jack.
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Phan-Tom

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Post Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:56 am

Re: Rather Sad

Not quite.
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Phan-Tom

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Post Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:49 pm

Re: Rather Sad

Actually I was disheartened when I put photos from project taurOs on my facebook page.
The only responses were jokes, and one guy ,who has read too many science fiction novels,
thinking aurochs were going to catch some unknown disease and pass it to domestic cattle.
I don't understand how people don't think it's amazing that an extinct animal could be brought out of oblivion.
People hunted aurochs until the population became so small it couldn't recover and went extinct, and now there's a chance to
"right an unrightable wrong."
At least I know there are other people who feel the same way I do.
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canadianmaple09

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Post Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:16 am

Re: Rather Sad

Are they really going to be aurochs in the truest sense of the word though? Or are they just going to be cross-breeds of cattle that resemble what aurochs would've looked like? Being extinct for over 400 years, I assume there is no remaining DNA from an actual auroch. I haven't read too many science fiction novels or watched too many sci-fi movies, so I know that contrary to Jurassic Park, you don't just find DNA floating around in orbs of amber. I remember a project a few years ago to try and revive woolly mammoths. I believe they found a perfectly preserved specimen frozen in ice in Greenland. I think the plan was to mate mammoth DNA with elephant DNA and see if they could have an elephant give birth to a woolly mammoth. I never heard about it after the initial report which makes me think it wasn't a success.

Edit: I found a write-up about the project. It was actually Russia where they found the mammoth specimen.

In May 2007, the carcass of a one-month-old female woolly mammoth calf was discovered in a layer of permafrost near the Yuribei River in Russia, where it had been buried for 37,000 years. Alexei Tikhonov, the Russian Academy of Science's Zoological Institute's deputy director, has dismissed the prospect of cloning the animal, as the whole cells required for cloning would have burst under the freezing conditions. Nonetheless, DNA is expected to be well-enough preserved to be useful for research on mammoth phylogeny and perhaps physiology. However, Dr Sayaka Wakayama from the RIKEN Center for Developmental Biology in Kobe, Japan, believes that a technique she has used to clone mice from specimens frozen for sixteen years could be used successfully on recovered mammoth tissue: she cites that in her experiments the dead mice had been frozen to -20°C under simulated natural conditions, without using the usual preservative chemicals.

Researchers at Penn State University have sequenced about 85% of the gene map of the woolly mammoth, using DNA taken from hair samples collected from a selection of specimens, advancing the possibility of bringing the woolly mammoth back to life by inserting mammoth DNA sequences into the genome of the modern-day elephant. Although the samples were washed with bleach to remove possible contamination by bacteria or fungi, some DNA bases identified may be from the contaminating organisms and these have yet to be distinguished. To this end, scientists at the Broad Institute are currently generating a comparison with the genome of the African elephant. The information cannot be used to synthesize mammoth DNA, but Dr Stephan Schuster, leader of the project, notes that the mammoth’s genes differ at only some 400,000 sites from the genome of the African elephant and it would be possible (though not with presently available technology) to modify an elephant cell at these sites to make it resemble one bearing a mammoth's genome, and implant it into a surrogate elephant mother.


So that confirms what I thought, they haven't been successful yet. So for the auroch project, even if they had useable DNA, they'd still have a lot of hurdles to overcome before any living, breathing aurochs came into existence.
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Phan-Tom

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Post Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:35 am

Re: Rather Sad

Because domestic cattle are just selectively bred aurochs, they're planning on reversing the process.
http://blogs.ngm.com/blog_central/2010/06/ox-redux.html
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canadianmaple09

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Post Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:42 am

Re: Rather Sad

Just your typical waffle-loving Canadian.
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Phan-Tom

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Post Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:47 am

Re: Rather Sad

Nine years. The first calves have already been born.
http://www.stichtingtaurus.nl/NIEUWS/in ... iod=recent
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canadianmaple09

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Post Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:59 am

Re: Rather Sad

I have no idea what any of that says so I'll take your word for it. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ882QYzr-M
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Phan-Tom

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Post Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:20 am

Re: Rather Sad

My DA: http://phan-tom.deviantart.com/
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Post Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:54 am

Re: Rather Sad

I sent my illustration to the people handling the project to recreate the aurochs asking for an expert opinion.
To my surprise I quickly received a response.
Here's one opinion.
Her comments are:
- head a bit to low and a bit too small
- ears are a bit too big and too round (in comparison)
- a bit more shoulder-muscling would be good
- kossum should be somewhat bigger
- on the back some muscles do not exactly seem to follow the skeleton.
- forelegs, upper part, are not exactly correct
- hindlegs; should follow somewhat more the logic of muscling and the
lower part is a bit too long in comparison with the rest of the leg.
- a little bit more hair would do the trick (no Highland cattle idea
meant), it looks like the animal is shaven.


More interesting is this:
"Other question; when the picture is perfected, we want to use it for
media purposes. How to proceed further? What would be the price for such
an image?"
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Brendan

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Post Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:17 am

Re: Rather Sad

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Phan-Tom

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Post Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:15 pm

Re: Not so Sad

I already told him he could have it for free. I'll definitely add my signature when I make the changes.
A friend is urging me to tightly control who Project Tauros gives it to, like newspapers, but I'm not too worried about that.
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canadianmaple09

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Post Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:59 pm

Re: Not so Sad

So basically, she told you to rework the whole thing more or less? :D
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Phan-Tom

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Post Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:57 am

Re: Not so Sad

She did write "nice illustration, good color, horns and backline."
I guess this woman is well known in Europe for her cattle illustrations,
so she knows cattle anatomy. IMy illustration would probably appear somewhat sketchy
to someone who's an expert, but now I can define those areas that she pointed out.
They also sent my drawing to a guy who considered the foremost authority of aurochs.
We'll see what he has to say.
Probably "What is this thing suppose to be?"
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Brendan

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Post Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:50 am

Re: Not so Sad

How can they be so nit-picky (!) if the last one died 400 years ago ??
It's not like they have a photo of one.

pffft .... "experts" :roll: :roll:
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